Kevin Costner – His Big Picture

Kevin Costner: Hollywood actor, film producer, and director

Kevin Costner has a little bit of a cold, so he pours himself some peppermint tea. We’re sitting in the conference room on the second floor of the Waldorf Astoria hotel in Berlin. He’s wearing a shirt, gray on the outside, blue on the inside, with the sleeves rolled up. His glasses sport a broad, dark rim reminiscent of 1950s Ray Bans. Costner’s handshake is firm, as if he’s a man used to farm work or saddling a horse. It’s not our first meeting: Some years ago, I was invited to interview him at his ranch outside Aspen, Colorado – a 65-hectare estate consisting of a main building and several separate houses, built in the rustic Craftsman style.

The whole time I was there, I was treated like an honored guest and I never once felt that I was attending a press event. Unusually, the actor, film producer and director showed up without any assistants (who are very much in attendance at this interview in Germany and constantly remind him to keep it short). Instead, he arrived on a quad with two Labradors on the back seat, neither of which subsequently left his side. After the interview, he invited me to look around his private estate; all the doors were open. In the kitchen of the main house, his then wife Christine was preparing a small meal. Their child was asleep in an infant seat on the table beside her.

Costner is relaxed and pleasant today too, despite the hubbub surrounding his person. Authentic and down to earth, he shows none of the reserve or aloofness that celebrities sometimes develop over the course of their career. In fact, he’s so approachable that I keep forgetting he’s such a prominent personality.

“Throughout my career, I’ve always gone for the big dream.”

Kevin Costner

Western revival: Kevin Costner's passion

With “Horizon: An American Saga,” conceived as an opulent four-part film series, Kevin Costner has tapped into a trend. More than any contemporary Hollywood actor, Costner, now 69, represents the revival in Western culture and lifestyle that we are seeing right now. The TV series “Yellowstone,” in which he plays the patriarch John Dutton, has created a whole new generation of fans. With up to 12 million viewers per episode in the U.S., the successful five-season show broke all previous records. The Western genre appears to run in Costner’s blood. Not only because his ranch in Aspen bears so much resemblance to Dutton’s family residence in “Yellowstone”. Costner is also still active as frontman for his country band Kevin Costner & Modern West. Nothing right now appears to be more important to the father of seven children from two marriages than filming and marketing “Horizon”. After all, he has been trying to make this monumental Western for 40 years. And as was so often the case, all the film studios he approached rejected the project, some of them several times.

But rather than bury his dream, Costner invested between $38 million and $50 million of his own money (estimates vary) in order to finally bring the project to the big screen. He even mortgaged part of his property in Santa Barbara to raise enough funds. Should you interrupt him at this point to say that, in your humble opinion, this was a very rash move indeed, the uncompromising risk-taker will turn his still very blue eyes on you with a look saying: Would you sacrifice love to reason? I instantly feel like a nitpicking German kill-joy.

Country music is currently making a comeback. Even Beyoncé recently recorded a country album. How do you explain this phenomenon?

I can’t. People around the world seem to have started listening to this kind of music again. I was never particularly good at predicting trends. And that’s also why it was never my thing to follow them. Of course, I appreciate that country is popular again. But I don’t want to be part of that trend. That’s not what motivates me.

Filmmaker by conviction: the labor of love "Horizon"

What does?

For me, seeing a movie in a theater is a very private matter. What pushes me to make films is always the wish to share something personal with an audience. If a film is well made, it broadens people’s horizons in the best possible way. That’s the kind of story I wanted to tell. In the end, it turned into four scripts, but that’s just the time it needed.

It’s not the first time you’ve put your career and personal finances at risk to realize a project that was dear to your heart.

You can say that again. But I never risked as much as I have for “Horizon”. Yes, I invested my own money in the project, a lot more, incidentally, than is being reported everywhere. I used every trick in the book to be able to make this film. I had 106 days in which to film “Dances with Wolves,” but only 56 for “Horizon”. And that’s the bigger film. Of course I’d like to get my money back. But if something happens to me tomorrow, my children will still know exactly who I was. These films are the best example of that. Because I always go all the way to realize my ideas.

Since the beginning of his acting career, which Richard Burton pushed him into to a certain extent when he advised the younger man to concentrate on acting, Kevin Costner has held on to his vision: He is both a dreamer and a fighter, someone who performs best when he meets with resistance. His most successful film – “Dances with Wolves,” which he directed, produced and starred in – was turned down by a number of studios back in the day as well. But in the end, Costner was proven right. He happily took home 55 awards – among them seven Oscars and three Golden Globes – and the film enjoyed worldwide box-office takings of $400 million. In Germany alone, the Western was viewed by nearly seven million people, making it the most-watched film of 1991.

“What pushes me to make films is always the wish to share something personal.”

Kevin Costner

Between risk and passion: why it's worth being brave

Why do you always play for such high stakes?

It’s hard to say. I don’t like losing. And I also don’t like looking the fool. I just believe in these films so much. And I’m convinced that they will still have a life even after opening weekend and a bunch of bad reviews. Although to tell the truth, they haven’t all been bad. New York Magazine suddenly called “Horizon” one of the best films of the year.

So you let bad reviews affect you?

I know, I shouldn’t take them to heart so much. But it hurts to see something like that published. Then again, when I read a nice little review, it just feels damn good. And I believe in the big screen. You’re sitting in the theater, the lights go off and you have no idea what’s going to happen. When I see a space movie, I want to be pulled in. I want to identify with the story so much that it actually feels like I’m in space. The same goes for Westerns. This is what is so exciting about cinema, the authentic and emotional experience. We become time travelers experiencing other worlds and different time periods. That’s what film can offer.

Are you able to handle pressure differently these days than 30 years ago?

It hasn’t gotten easier, it’s still a struggle. Ten years ago I made a little film about racism called “Black or White”. Not one studio was interested in financing it, but it was so important to me, I used my own money. It was a form of financial suicide. I don’t know why I keep doing things like that.

So you just can’t help yourself?

You know, I have acquired more stuff than I ever imagined I would, and I come from a very conservative family. The film business was completely foreign to them and not a realistic career option at all. I achieved more than I ever dreamed I would. Yes, I have some very nice stuff. But it’s not so nice that I have to be a slave to it just to give meaning to my life. Let me put it this way: That stuff is not more important than telling a story that I would like to see playing on the big screen. My strategy and my beliefs are not especially complicated. Make the films that you would like to see.

“Will ‘Horizon’ be a huge success? I have no idea. But I know that I put good work into it.”

Kevin Costner

Cowboy movies: what Costner criticizes about them

What is it about you that attracts the Western genre? Were you a cowboy in a previous life?

(He laughs) Honestly? I don’t particularly like most Westerns, and didn’t as a child, either. But there was one movie that really opened my eyes: “How the West was Won”. That movie was authentic. They filmed everything on site, not in some studio back lot. In some of the scenes, the story felt absolutely real to me. Most Westerns are put together too simply. Everything seems wrong, the costumes, the sets or the roles women get to play. The indigenous actors seem to be dressed strangely too. If you ask me, many Westerns just don’t get it right.

What do you object to in the stories?

Many of them follow the exact same pattern. In the first five minutes someone kills the protagonist’s whole family, and the rest of the film is about revenge. Don’t get me wrong, there’s definitely a place for revenge in movies. I was once part of a story like that, in the miniseries “Hatfields & McCoys”. But in most Westerns, the West is portrayed far too simply. It was actually a very complex world. Many people suddenly found themselves in a place that was completely foreign to them, and they had to live there. They had to share the land with other groups who didn’t want them there. The West also drew many criminals, because the law didn’t apply. We make our Westerns too simple, which does this period of our history a great disservice. We also almost always see only male characters in the main roles. I like female characters, and in “Horizon” you see many women in key roles. That might not be a style that suits everyone but I like seeing strong women in Westerns.

What does your taste in movies boil down to?

Tell the story with as much nuance and humanity as you can. If there’s a place in it for humor, find it. If tragedy strikes, take advantage of it to create an emotional bond with your audience. When things get violent, let it be bad. And when people die, you should feel something.

“Honestly, I don’t like most Western movies, and didn’t as a child, either …”

Kevin Costner

The struggle of filmmaking

Movie making has changed a lot over the years. Do you still enjoy it as much?

They have all these great tools these days, computer effects and so on. But I’m a director who doesn’t work with special effects. I take my actors and actresses to the actual locations, to where everything happened. I hope this gives audiences a little something extra. I find that these days, more and more people are wanting to have a say in things. Many decisions are made jointly because everyone wants to add their own two cents. That’s not how I work. As the director, I have a right to the final cut. It’s been like that since “Dances with Wolves”. Not that I’ve directed that many films since then. I’m convinced there are better directors out there than me.

Did it use to be easier to find financing for big films?

Not in my experience. None of the big studios were interested in “Dances with Wolves”. They all rejected me. Also, because I had no experience as a director. For me, making films has always been a struggle. I can look back on a great career in which I was able to play different and interesting roles. But as soon as I really started caring about something, it got difficult. That’s when I’d look back at the brilliant part of my career and ask myself: Is this the kind of success I really love, or do I love my dream? I always chose my dream.

If you’re completely honest with yourself, you enjoy fighting for what you want, don’t you?

No, I don’t like fighting. But I am prepared to fight in order not to lose myself and forget who I am. Because I would, otherwise. I like having as little drama in my life as possible, and also for things to go smoothly on set. I hate firing people, for instance. Although I’m not afraid of a good argument. I always trust my own taste. I’m convinced that “Horizon“ is a good film, that it is legitimate. Will it become a huge success? I have no idea. But I know that I put good work into it. For me, that’s what counts in the end – no matter how much trouble it took to make.

“I don’t fall out of love that easy. I’ve been dreaming of making ‘Horizon’ for 40 years …”

Kevin Costner

Is that what makes you happy?

I’ve found my way in life. Although I never considered myself to be particularly smart. I was also never really good in school. But like in “The Wizard of Oz,” I found my yellow brick road. I’ve been trying to get this story onto the big screen for almost 40 years. I had the idea for “Horizon” before “Dances with Wolves”. Seeing it in theaters now means everything to me, makes me happy. I have fallen in love with this project. And I don’t fall out of love that easy. I’m not that kind of guy. If I see something I like, I don’t change my mind quickly.

What made you fall in love with this story?

First, I fell in love with the main character and wanted to play him. I was so in love with this character that I named my son Hayes after him. Who, by the way, has a small part in the movie too. And then there was the fascinating story about the founding of a town called Horizon. Much of what the settlers experienced back then takes place in this town. Another important thing was that the land on which the town was built actually belonged to Native Americans. We forget about indigenous people to this day, in pop culture too. The film is like a book, a story, that I have written for the audience. A film like that belongs on the big screen, not on a streaming platform. All those galloping horses on screen, I haven’t seen anything like that in a long time. Isn’t it great?

Great stories over trends

Are Westerns making a comeback too?

I really don’t believe in trends. To me, it’s always the right time for a great science fiction movie, a fantastic Western or a good love story. You just have to dare to produce a great story for the big screen. And for it to be great, it has to be carefully thought through. It has to be authentic and subtle. And you should always keep your target audience in mind. If you want a onestop shop that’s going to make everybody happy and follow every trend, it’s not going to work. I don’t believe in test screenings where the studio shows my film to a test audience and then asks which scenes they liked the least. Of course some people will raise their hand. That’s the confirmation studios are looking for so they can force me to make changes. But the question itself is already suggestive. Of course people will like some scenes better than others. That’s why I refuse to change my film.

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